tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post7342991385404101005..comments2023-09-14T01:03:30.922+01:00Comments on The Thirsty Gargoyle: It's important to call people by their proper names...The Thirsty Gargoylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07555762505933950270noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-10646746964455959092011-09-21T17:22:29.785+01:002011-09-21T17:22:29.785+01:00Well there do seem to be old maps from the 16th ce...Well there do seem to be old maps from the 16th century from Antwerp and Italy that have the British Isles mentioned in Latin and Italian respectively. So I think it has been used for longer than you suggest – although clearly you are going to see it used far more when the entire archipelago became united as a single political entity.<br /><br />However, I do understand that the word British hascourtneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-27524325284865152442011-09-20T18:45:36.638+01:002011-09-20T18:45:36.638+01:00It don't really think it's accurate to say...It don't really think it's accurate to say it dates back to antiquity. Sure, in the strictest sense it did so, but the reality is that a phrase that can be translated 'British isles' existed in antiquity, was ditched for about 1,200 years, and then was revived by British writers at a time when they were claiming dominion over Ireland. Indeed, the term 'British Isles' The Thirsty Gargoylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555762505933950270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-36657743981341040872011-09-20T17:27:37.785+01:002011-09-20T17:27:37.785+01:00Yes, it’s a fair point that we should avoid offend...Yes, it’s a fair point that we should avoid offending people when we can. But the case of the British Isles is a little different because there isn’t really an alternative as you point out. <br /><br />And can’t it also be reasoned that people from the UK might have more grounds to be offended by the Irish position than the Irish have to take offense in the first place? After all, this is a courtneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-16599083903099545742011-09-20T16:18:45.184+01:002011-09-20T16:18:45.184+01:00I think what the British call the Irish among them...I think what the British call the Irish <i>among themselves</i> is basically their own business, but if they're addressing Irish people or expect their words to be heard or read by Irish people, then it's prudent to use words that won't offend them. <br /><br />I don't buy the Dutch arguments, I'm afraid, not least because there's no obvious border between the Netherlands The Thirsty Gargoylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555762505933950270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-46843835842583278262011-09-20T15:52:09.944+01:002011-09-20T15:52:09.944+01:00I work abroad and a Dutch colleague described my I...I work abroad and a Dutch colleague described my Irish colleague as being fellow British and I told him that he was Irish and not British. But he asked me how then to describe inhabitants of our archipelago? And the only answer I could give him is to ask why we should necessarily be grouped together more necessarily than other neighbouring countries. His response was that (a) archipelagos courtneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-53803592072706080162011-09-20T01:46:06.332+01:002011-09-20T01:46:06.332+01:00It was originally a geographical term, Lynda, but ...It was originally a geographical term, Lynda, but an inaccurate one, in that the Greeks called these islands the <i>Nessoi Prytannoi</i>, in the belief that the islands were inhabited by a people called Priteni -- the same people the Romans later called Picts, and who in Ireland were called Cruthin. They hardly lived in Ireland at all, so there was no real sense in which Ireland was a Pictish The Thirsty Gargoylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555762505933950270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-30172649774321772672011-09-19T23:42:18.931+01:002011-09-19T23:42:18.931+01:00I understood that the term British Isles was purel...I understood that the term British Isles was purely a geographical term. "British" and cognate terms are of celtic origin and refer to the celtic peoples that originally populated the island of Britain before invasion and settlement of England by the Angles and Saxons. Lyndarm. "British" and cognate terms are of celtic origin and refer to the celtic peoples that originally Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-51948414147919052502011-09-19T22:50:02.908+01:002011-09-19T22:50:02.908+01:00But how does a country come into being and can its...But how does a country come into being and can its dimensions ever change?<br /><br />The borders of Poland changed significantly after 1945. Is the current state of Poland something different from the country of Poland?<br /><br />The UK is a state/country comprising three nations and a part of another.PaulWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-80866065488118845232011-09-19T21:57:44.774+01:002011-09-19T21:57:44.774+01:00The term British Isles serves as a practical expre...The term British Isles serves as a practical expression for the collection of the UK, the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man and the various Bailiwicks of the Channel Islands. Governments from all parts meet in "The Council of the Isles". In a loose sense Ireland is British as it shares a language and much culture with other parts of the isles and the populations are intermixed.<br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09036933832060349206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-47665442424157457362011-09-19T18:57:55.274+01:002011-09-19T18:57:55.274+01:00Just to follow through on a point your discussion ...Just to follow through on a point your discussion made me ponder. The reason the meaning of country appears “wobbly” is because we are trying to view it as a legislated reality whereas in fact it isn’t. But this doesn’t mean it isn’t real. On the contrary, in a sense it is “realer” that a legislated reality. A state is a legislated reality. The Republic of Ireland and the UK were brought into Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-74499971814979483322011-09-19T18:01:15.114+01:002011-09-19T18:01:15.114+01:00"It is, after all, arguable that Northern Ire..."It is, after all, arguable that Northern Ireland is a country in its own right, or that it's part of another country, that being the UK."<br /><br />The UK is not a country, but a state consisting of 3 entire countries and part of another. It is solely a political entity. Whereas a country is never a mere political entity.<br />By what you say then, Ireland is no longer a divided Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-1801887739085238412011-09-19T17:52:38.160+01:002011-09-19T17:52:38.160+01:00I loved the post on the 'British Isles' an...I loved the post on the 'British Isles' and have bookmarked it for future reference. That term irritates me no end. (Although some English reactionaries love it, I have never heard anyone in Ireland use it.)shanehttp://lxoa.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-22768273099502966332011-09-19T16:27:58.213+01:002011-09-19T16:27:58.213+01:00I think the term 'country' is a bit wobbly...I think the term 'country' is a bit wobbly. In the preamble to the Constitution the term country is clearly used in a way that identifies it with the island and its surrounding islands, but the other two uses of the term in the Constitution clearly identify it with the state. Given, however, that Republic no longer claims the North as part of the national territory, I'm not entirely The Thirsty Gargoylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555762505933950270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-56732120083465340812011-09-19T14:30:47.149+01:002011-09-19T14:30:47.149+01:00"It's unwise to refer to Ireland as being..."It's unwise to refer to Ireland as being part of the British Isles". Tell that to the BBC. They seem to love the term. Natural history is particularly bad offender.Humphreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-200177861013445343.post-68345285770903521372011-09-19T14:22:04.547+01:002011-09-19T14:22:04.547+01:00Hang on a second. Your third bullet point. The cou...Hang on a second. Your third bullet point. The country called Ireland includes the six counties referred to as Northern Ireland and is geographically identical with the island of Ireland.<br />The Republic of Ireland is a state within Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is not a country. It is a state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com